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Episode 3 - Hidden Spaces and Forgotten Places (Part 1): Transcript

Speaker: Good morning and welcome to the Richard J. Riordan Central Library. The library is now open.

Patron: Well, when you're standing near the sphinxes, you know, right outside of Teenscape, there's windows inside the building. Where do those windows lead?

Sheridan: Hello and welcome to Past Due: One Hundred Years of Central Library, a podcast commemorating the Central Library centennial. As part of the centennial, we're putting on a variety of events, a special reading challenge, and creating tons of original content for Angelenos to celebrate one of their favorite institutions, the Central Library. For more, visit lapl.org/central100. I'm Sheridan J. Cazares, a librarian in the Exploration and Creativity Department of the Los Angeles Public Library. On today's episode, we're talking about hidden spaces and forgotten places. And believe me, there are plenty. To learn more about the mysterious windows and other hidden spaces in the Central Library. Today we're talking to the library docent extraordinaire, Tom McQuaide. Welcome, Tom.

Tom McQuaide: Thank you. Sheridan. It's my pleasure.

Sheridan: So, our library patron, who you just heard, was wondering about the windows you can see on the second floor of Central Library at the top of one of the staircases nearest to the Teenscape department. There are lots of strangely placed windows inside the building at Central Library, as well as a lot of other kinds of weird nooks and crannies. Why is that?

Tom McQuaide: Strange indeed. So, originally when the library opened up in 1926, if you came in the main entrance, now at this point, when it opened up, the main entrance was on the west side or the Flower Street side. So that was floor number one. You entered into there. There was a number of services there. There was a periodicals room there. There was a magazine or newspaper room. There was also a book bindery room. But really your intention is you were going up to the next level, floor number two. And floor number two is where the rotunda was. That's also where the catalogs were. That's where the librarians were. And then there were the reading rooms that you would do your work in. So that was floor number two. And then over top of that was floor number three. And that was where the offices were for the people who actually worked in the library. So, we had these three floors, but in between floor number two and floor number three was a mezzanine level. And the mezzanine level was a collection of rooms that were for people who were working in level number two, doing research or writing books or that kind of thing where they can go and work privately. Or if they had, let's say, a book club of some sort that they could gather in there. So it was a way that you could be separate from the actual wide open reading groups, more individual spaces. So even in the reading rooms, people who, let's say, were writing a book, there was a cabinet with a lock and key that you were given that you can lock up your typewriter because this is before the days of laptops and typewriters were pretty heavy at that point, so you didn't want to be lugging them around. So we would just lock it away. So it was a private room that you could work at.

Sheridan: That's amazing. I would have never thought about typewriter transportation and having to lock up my typewriter at the library. That's so cool that it was a service that we used to offer.

Tom McQuaide: Right. And so just to follow up, that's where those windows come from. So what you're looking at when you see the windows near the teen space or the north stairway area and also in the picture book room, and look above the KLOS Puppet Theatre, that's what you're looking at is into what was the mezzanine level. Since the renovation of the building during the post-fire era, what was the mezzanine level became level three or floor number three. And then what was floor number three got moved up to floor number four.

Sheridan: Can you tell us what's behind those windows?

Tom McQuaide: Right now, it's actually a variety of things. The mezzanine level, after the renovations of the late 80s and early 90s, that became the third floor of the library, and that was more used for office space. So depending on what you're looking at, on the west side, you have the storage for the Special collections. North side you have just general storage space. And then on the east side you have the manager of Research and Special Collections office. And that's why you usually look up there and you can see there's lights on because it's actually an office for staff.

Sheridan: Do you have any other favorite secret places in the building or forgotten places that might capture the imagination?

Tom McQuaide: The fiction floor [correction: Art floor], in the [Bradley] addition, you can actually go through the addition and see what was originally the art room for the 1926 library And there is a balcony within that room. And this was at a time where if you go up to that balcony, there were drafting tables, and so you could take books out of the Art Department, go up there and maybe make a reproduction or do sketches based off that. So, that was a way that again, sort of an extension of that mezzanine level is that it was a way for just private work that can continue from there.

Sheridan: If you had come to Central Library before the 1986 fire, what are the more intriguing spaces you might have found that were lost once the building was renovated?

Tom McQuaide: Well, one place that was lost, maybe this is a personal thing, was a piano room up there. So you could go there and actually play the piano. And, of course, this was in the Music Department. This was in the east wing of the library. And since that time, again since the building of the Tom Bradley Wing in 1993, that whole east wing was torn down to allow for that. So, one of the things that did get lost was the piano room, which was very popular. I mean, at one point it was having about four hundred people a month using that piano room. And of course, this is before digital pianos. So, you had to keep a piano tuner busy to actually work in there because it was just getting a lot of use. And similarly, there was a Music Department. So, you can take musical scores off the shelves and learn a new piece. All in the same library.

Sheridan: Wow. That's amazing. Yeah, you could grab the score, learn to play it, and then if you needed a tuner, they were there. They were there. That's amazing. So, Tom, the last time you were here, we talked about hidden spaces, and we discussed the Hope Street tunnel, which was once the main entrance to the library and now is an entrance used only by staff. A couple of former librarians who later became library volunteers, Helene Mochedlover and Renny Day, solved the mystery of when that entrance was closed to the public. Are there any other library mysteries that the Central Library volunteers have yet to solve?

Tom McQuaide: Well, the big mystery, I think overall is going to be the 1986 fire. If it was arson, who started it or what started it at the time? I think since Susan Orlean wrote her book in 2018 that renewed that question. So it's overriding, but another question, more recent, I guess, is where's the rest of the Well of Scribes? You might have covered this earlier, is that we know the garden, what's now called Maguire Gardens on the west side, that had to be replaced. There was a series of tiered pools when the library opened up in 1926 with the cypress trees, what we see right now. But in 1969, that had all been torn out and had been turned into a parking lot. There used to be at the end of the pools what was called the Well of Scribes, another sculpture by Lee Lawrie, who had done all the other sculptures in the library. But when they tore out the garden in 1969, that Well of Scribes disappeared. In 2019 though, one section of it was found in Arizona and brought back here. So we do have it here in the library. And the question is, it's only part of it, where's the rest?

Sheridan: Yeah. For any listeners out there who want to see the piece that we do have of the Well of Scribes, make an appointment with our Special Collections team and you can view it. It's on view in the Special Collections room here at the library.[Note: as of March 2026, the Well of the Scribes is on exhibit in the Annenberg Gallery on the 2nd Floor of Central Library] And so now you know more about the old interior windows here at Central Library. Apparently they went from being part of the original 1926 mezzanine level to idiosyncratic hidden spaces once the library reopened after 1993. Another library mystery solved here on the Past Due: One Hundred podcast. A note to anyone wanting to see the Central Library in more detail, our amazing docents offer multiple tours of the building and gardens every single week, and they're completely free. You can also find tons about the building through our LAPL blog. Just look for the articles written by our expert docents. For more information, visit lapl.org. Now let's talk about another area of the library that is certainly of interest, LAPL's Special collections. Angi Brzycki leads a department that has special rules, some special items, and is open to the public.

Angi Brzycki: Hey. Yeah. That's right. My name is Angi Brzycki, and I'm the senior librarian of Digitization and Special Collections.

Sheridan: Welcome, welcome. Thanks so much for being here today. Will you tell us a little bit about yourself and what your department is all about?

Angi Brzycki: Of course. So I've been with the library for about twelve years. I've been in this department for about two. So, Special Collections at the Los Angeles Public Library includes a wide variety of rare and unique items, which includes archival collections, photographs, maps, rare books, prints, artist books, periodicals, newspapers, pamphlets, broadsides, travel posters. We even have forty thousand menus. Fashion plates, book plates, fruit crate labels, manuscripts and so much more. We have over twenty two thousand monographs, predominantly in English and Spanish. Those date back to the fifteenth century, with the majority published in the eighteenth and nineteenth century. We also have archival collections, which includes the Brockman Gallery Archive, Lydia Otero Archive, and Bill Press collection.

Sheridan: Wow. Wow. Okay. Special Collections has a ton of different items in the collection. Forty thousand menus. Amazing. What's your area of expertise, would you say, like, your focus area?

Angi Brzycki: Zines is one of my focuses. When I was at a branch in Edendale, I started that zine collection and I maintained a collection in Hollywood. So I've been working with zines for a while.

Sheridan: So as part of our interview today, we asked you to select an item that you thought was special and interesting. Something that would be of interest to our readers or viewers or listeners of the podcast. What do you have for us today?

Angi Brzycki: So I chose the periodical Manzanar Free Press, which was started April 11th 1942. This lasted for three years, which is the longest running newspaper that took place in a concentration camp. So it was started by a group of ambitious ex-newspapermen and women, that were interested in creating a quote unquote community, small town newspaper.

Sheridan: And the small town in question is Manzanar.

Angi Brzycki: Correct. So it was an internment camp for Japanese-Americans for three years.

Sheridan: What would you say is sort of special about the Manzanar Free Press and why is it in our Special Collections here at LAPL?

Angi Brzycki: Well, you know, it's just really interesting to see this kind of publication that was written by folks that were living in this space and having to endure leaving your home, being in this camp. And then the tone of the paper was very community driven, almost like this small town newspaper that just kind of talks about, you know, social events and activities and sports and recreation and then realizing that a few months after the publication started, there was a riot of the folks living there. And there's no mention of it in the newspaper. And there was a pause in the publication And then it started again. And it lasted up until the closing of the camp which was in [1945].

Sheridan: It's interesting. I remember reading about it because this isn't the only newspaper that was produced by residents of the concentration camps during World War II. I remember reading too, that there was a sort of editorial board that would look over the papers, which kind of would explain, I think, why it's about, "oh, we're having this social dance" or "there's this event," but no mention of the riots. How do you think that that manifests other than in the paper itself?

Angi Brzycki: It was kept very light and positive, which under the circumstances... you don't know how long it's going to last. Yeah, you do want to create community and you want... I mean, people fell in love at these camps and children were actually born at these camps, and under the circumstances, how do you still create a life? And my first thought, to be honest was, "oh, this is so strange." If I were to write this newspaper under those circumstances, it would be totally in opposition of everything that was happening and like a revolt, but to see it as this way of engaging as if this is by choice... I don't know if that makes sense.

Sheridan: No, that does make sense. I mean, I think it's one of those artifacts that is so indicative of what happens when you're met with a really difficult historical moment. What do you do as a person? You know, and then aside from being a person, the people that were producing Manzanar Free Press and other papers like it are also professionals. Professionals that have their own editorial bent. I think you hit the nail on the head, they're trying to make it so that the people living in the camps also have some kind of affirmation of life. We're having a social event. There's a dance. There's a wedding. A new baby was born. There's obituaries, I imagine, as well. Because they were still continuing to live their lives, even if they were sort of set aside from the rest of society. I'm gonna have to come and take a look, because I think it's super interesting to point out this paper that was produced by people that were part of this camp. And even now what we're seeing in this country, like the people who are currently in the detention centers, I don't think have the ability to produce a paper that would sort of jot down their thoughts or their voices or what they're experiencing in the detention centers. And I wonder what it would sound like if they did.

Angi Brzycki: Totally. I agree.

Sheridan: Angi, let's switch gears a tiny bit. Would you let us know what is Digitization? That's a part of the department that you work in. It's Digitization and Special Collections. I know that it involves turning a physical item into a digital item, but how does that process happen?

Angi Brzycki: So, our librarians are specialized. So, we have an archivist, we have a digital librarian. We also have a metadata cataloging librarian. So, when we decide we want to digitize something, a collection or an archive, all three librarians work together. So, first, the archivist will work with the digital librarian to determine what should be digitized from a collection or from an archive. And that's carefully thought out. It's really intentional. And then once that decision is made, then the actual process of digitizing happens. We have a large scale camera, we use the DT Versa with software Capture One. And we also have high resolution scanners. Then, once the item is scanned, we make sure to properly save it, whether it's going to be for preservation or for access. When we decide it's going to be for access, we put it on our digital platform called Tessa and our metadata cataloging library will create metadata for that image, which will then make it easier for folks to access...so having that entry point and knowing what to search for. So yeah, so we digitize for two reasons. For preservation and for access. And we also have on Tessa the ability to request reproductions of items from our collection. So depending on whether or not there's a copyright issue, the material is basically owned by our department, Special Collections, Los Angeles Public Library.

Sheridan: All right. For any interested listeners out there, if you want to view the Manzanar Free Press, you'd have to make an appointment with our Digitization and Special Collections Department, and you can do so at lapl.org. Click on the locations tab, click on Central Library, and then along the right hand side click on Digitization and Special Collections. And you'd fill out an online form that has special hours to come and view any items in the collection based upon your research needs. If you want to view digital items that have been digitized by our Special Collections Department, you can actually go to lapl.org/Tessa and look at our photo collections that are on there. Special items, some of the fruit crate labels are on there, and a bunch of other institutional archives and even oral histories are available as well. What has been your favorite project in your time here at LAPL, Angi?

Angi Brzycki: When I started at LAPL, one of my first positions was adult librarian at the Edendale Branch in Echo Park, and I applied for a state grant. You had to choose a book and then create programming around it. So, I chose The Mars Room by Rachel Kushner. And then the subject matter involved mass incarceration and reentry. So, you know, California being the largest carceral state, I found it really important to investigate that through programming. And then also, this concept of reentry. What does that mean? And looking into various support systems. So I worked with Susan Burton, who also published a memoir, but it's about the organization that she started for women who were re-entering society after being incarcerated, called A New Way of [Life]. I also connected with Father Greg Boyle, who started the Homeboy Industries for folks that were formerly incarcerated to have jobs and rebuild. And he's published many books. So that was on our book list. But yeah, it was a three month journey of really focusing on that topic of being incarcerated and then reentering society and that entire process. But one of the most notable programs that we did was, and this was something that Susan Burton does with many of the women that she has helped and worked with, they do this thing called a living library where women share their story with patrons. So we had a day where six or seven women came and shared their story to patrons. And there were a lot of tears and just so much love and compassion. And it was cathartic and really just a beautiful experience. And it was led by Susan Burton who's just a total powerhouse here in Los Angeles.

Sheridan: Yeah, amazing. It's making me think too, we have huge issues in our society, right? We have. You mentioned California being the largest carceral state. What happens when a group of people has been detained or put into a particular camp or detention center, and then they're all released at the same time, similar to what happened post World War II with Nisei/Nikkei all across the country. Then eventually, what's going to have to happen with the detention centers that ICE has, how do we deal with those kinds of things as a society where you have this large group of people who have been detained because of the power of the state in one way or another, and then suffered traumas and had to live their lives in these places, and then they're all released, in a short time frame. How do we deal with that as a society? What kind of elasticity do we need, do we require? Really big questions today on the podcast! Switching gears just a tiny bit, I'm going to ask you a question that I ask anybody who appears here on Past Due: One Hundred Years of Central Library. What is your favorite part of the Central Library?

Angi Brzycki: Well, I'm not gonna say the rotunda, because, I mean... it's gorgeous. I love it, obviously, but I do love all these areas of the library where there used to be payphones, and it's just like what once was. And then at the entrance of the library in Maguire Gardens, if you enter from there just before the security, there's this payphone room. And there's two payphones and neither one of them work. But I just love that space. It just feels like an art installation. But I also do love David Bunn's elevator with the card catalog, too.

Sheridan: So, for any interested listeners, David Bunn is an artist who was commissioned to work on a public art installation as part of the 1993 renovations before the reopening after the fire in the Tom Bradley wing, designed by Norman Pfeiffer. And what he did was take nine million card catalog cards and decided that he wanted to highlight anything that had "complete" or "comprehensive" in the title. And then selected cards to fill up our two elevator cars that go from upper level three to lower level four. The cars also have windows and as you pass by different floors of the library, all of the different cards on that particular floor reflect the floor that you're on. So, for example, if you're on the Business and Economics floor, you'll see cards that have titles relating to economics. If you go down to the History floor, you'll see cards that have titles reflecting history. So visit the Central Library here at 630 West Fifth Street, and you can see the installation for yourself in the Tom Bradley wing. Thank you so much for being on the podcast today, Angi Brzycki, our intrepid senior Librarian of Digitization and Special Collections.

Angi Brzycki: Thank you so much.

Sheridan: To view any digitized items in LAPL's collection on Tessa, visit Tessa.lapl.org. Today's episode was made possible by executive producer Christina Hairston and producer Stella Mittelbach. It was recorded in the Octavia Lab with help from the amazing Octavia Lab staff and edited by Adrienne Deeble. I'm your host, Sheridan Jay Cazarez, with the Los Angeles Public Library. Thanks for listening to the Past Due podcast. We'll see you at the library.

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